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	<title>Comments on: The Sacred Cow</title>
	<atom:link href="http://kathleenbasi.com/2009/12/15/the-sacred-cow/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://kathleenbasi.com/2009/12/15/the-sacred-cow/</link>
	<description>Life at the intersection of faith, parenting and the written word</description>
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		<title>By: Colleen</title>
		<link>http://kathleenbasi.com/2009/12/15/the-sacred-cow/#comment-1562</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Colleen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathleenbasi.com/?p=2043#comment-1562</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great post and well said.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post and well said.</p>
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		<title>By: Linkety Snip &#171; So much to say, so little time</title>
		<link>http://kathleenbasi.com/2009/12/15/the-sacred-cow/#comment-1560</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Linkety Snip &#171; So much to say, so little time]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathleenbasi.com/?p=2043#comment-1560</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] a post on sex, abortion, birth control and Anne Rice generated a lot of discussion. Hope you&#8217;ll join [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a post on sex, abortion, birth control and Anne Rice generated a lot of discussion. Hope you&#8217;ll join [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rae</title>
		<link>http://kathleenbasi.com/2009/12/15/the-sacred-cow/#comment-1557</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rae]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 04:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathleenbasi.com/?p=2043#comment-1557</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Time in front of the tree sounds great, and I am glad that you chose it instead of putting more thought into replying to a comment that probably wasn&#039;t worth all that much. :-)

I am sorry for implying that you were a Christopher West junkie. That was sloppy &amp; unintended. 

For some reason after reading the last paragraph of your post, I imagined Rice checking her Google alerts one day and shaking her head about everyone just does not understand. I can&#039;t help thinking that this is a case of &quot;whoever is not against us is for us&quot; rather than the inverse. 

I&#039;ll admit that when I read Rice&#039;s comment about gender complementarity in Totb I assumed that she had never actually read it. You are right that her ability to understand Beauty has been damaged, but I worry that my own ability is far to weak to correct Rice&#039;s. I guess that my approach would be to welcome Rice&#039;s attempt at reconciling people with the Church and to suggest that she is completely correct that the Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount are &quot;entirely adequate&quot; for addressing these issues. Now that I look back at that chapter in the book, I get the feeling that Rice was circling in on truth she was trying to explain, but ended up contradicting herself in an attempt at expressing a mystery. But obviously I really have no idea what I am talking about.  

I guess that rambling is a natural result of comments which don&#039;t actually address the main point of a post. And for that you have my apologies. :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Time in front of the tree sounds great, and I am glad that you chose it instead of putting more thought into replying to a comment that probably wasn&#8217;t worth all that much. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I am sorry for implying that you were a Christopher West junkie. That was sloppy &amp; unintended. </p>
<p>For some reason after reading the last paragraph of your post, I imagined Rice checking her Google alerts one day and shaking her head about everyone just does not understand. I can&#8217;t help thinking that this is a case of &#8220;whoever is not against us is for us&#8221; rather than the inverse. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll admit that when I read Rice&#8217;s comment about gender complementarity in Totb I assumed that she had never actually read it. You are right that her ability to understand Beauty has been damaged, but I worry that my own ability is far to weak to correct Rice&#8217;s. I guess that my approach would be to welcome Rice&#8217;s attempt at reconciling people with the Church and to suggest that she is completely correct that the Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount are &#8220;entirely adequate&#8221; for addressing these issues. Now that I look back at that chapter in the book, I get the feeling that Rice was circling in on truth she was trying to explain, but ended up contradicting herself in an attempt at expressing a mystery. But obviously I really have no idea what I am talking about.  </p>
<p>I guess that rambling is a natural result of comments which don&#8217;t actually address the main point of a post. And for that you have my apologies. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://kathleenbasi.com/2009/12/15/the-sacred-cow/#comment-1540</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kathleen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 02:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathleenbasi.com/?p=2043#comment-1540</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You know, I started the post with the intent of reviewing the whole book, but realized it was getting too far-flung. You are right, up to a point; she was clearly conflicted, and it was a mind-stretcher for me to see someone who felt so clearly connected with the Real Presence, despite her difficulties with certain teachings. And I loved to hear someone outside the pastoral music community talk the language of the liturgy with such matter-of-fact ease, not sounding pretentious.

FWIW, I have never been either a Christopher West junkie (my husband and I thought the first book we read was over the top), nor an Anne Rice hater. The first thing I read of hers was Out of Egypt, and it was a truly holy experience for me, as was the Road to Cana. Those two books made me go read Interview with a Vampire, but I barely got through it; I understood the central conflict, but it just never caught me.

I like what you say, that humility is the queen of virtues. The NFP community has a tendency to self-righteousness and painting things in black &amp; white terms. It&#039;s a painful truth that my husband and I frequently lament, so if I come across sounding just that way, I missed my mark. As for that section of the book, I think the idea has merit, just not in the area of sexuality, for the reasons I stated. As for the total approach, I think it is neither harmful nor ignorant--she&#039;s clearly done a lot of research--far more than I have, and I know quite a lot about my faith. I just think that the sex culture (I hate talking about that, b/c it sounds so reactionary, but you can&#039;t turn around without sex being thrown in your face, so it&#039;s clearly a valid point) has seduced her, and she hasn&#039;t been able to see the beauty, the wholeness, the respect for the total person, male and female, as God created them, that is in the Theology of the Body. It is truly in the middle, if people will only look at it in its entirety, instead of one part. When she talked about the &quot;gender complementarity&quot; in TOB, I shook my head...because gender complementarity is precisely what&#039;s so beautiful, and it&#039;s far more in line with her idea of people being people first. I think she is reacting to a secular, historical view of gender roles, and not the reality of what simply exists.

Oh dear, it is late and I am rambling, and I need some time in front of the tree with my husband. :) I&#039;ll be interested to hear back from you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, I started the post with the intent of reviewing the whole book, but realized it was getting too far-flung. You are right, up to a point; she was clearly conflicted, and it was a mind-stretcher for me to see someone who felt so clearly connected with the Real Presence, despite her difficulties with certain teachings. And I loved to hear someone outside the pastoral music community talk the language of the liturgy with such matter-of-fact ease, not sounding pretentious.</p>
<p>FWIW, I have never been either a Christopher West junkie (my husband and I thought the first book we read was over the top), nor an Anne Rice hater. The first thing I read of hers was Out of Egypt, and it was a truly holy experience for me, as was the Road to Cana. Those two books made me go read Interview with a Vampire, but I barely got through it; I understood the central conflict, but it just never caught me.</p>
<p>I like what you say, that humility is the queen of virtues. The NFP community has a tendency to self-righteousness and painting things in black &amp; white terms. It&#8217;s a painful truth that my husband and I frequently lament, so if I come across sounding just that way, I missed my mark. As for that section of the book, I think the idea has merit, just not in the area of sexuality, for the reasons I stated. As for the total approach, I think it is neither harmful nor ignorant&#8211;she&#8217;s clearly done a lot of research&#8211;far more than I have, and I know quite a lot about my faith. I just think that the sex culture (I hate talking about that, b/c it sounds so reactionary, but you can&#8217;t turn around without sex being thrown in your face, so it&#8217;s clearly a valid point) has seduced her, and she hasn&#8217;t been able to see the beauty, the wholeness, the respect for the total person, male and female, as God created them, that is in the Theology of the Body. It is truly in the middle, if people will only look at it in its entirety, instead of one part. When she talked about the &#8220;gender complementarity&#8221; in TOB, I shook my head&#8230;because gender complementarity is precisely what&#8217;s so beautiful, and it&#8217;s far more in line with her idea of people being people first. I think she is reacting to a secular, historical view of gender roles, and not the reality of what simply exists.</p>
<p>Oh dear, it is late and I am rambling, and I need some time in front of the tree with my husband. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I&#8217;ll be interested to hear back from you.</p>
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		<title>By: Rae</title>
		<link>http://kathleenbasi.com/2009/12/15/the-sacred-cow/#comment-1539</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rae]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 00:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathleenbasi.com/?p=2043#comment-1539</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was actually quite impressed with Rice&#039;s take in that chapter. She seemed to clearly have her view which was shaped by years in secular society rather than the Church, but she was willing to humbly suggest what she thought might change rather than to assert that the Church was wrong and she was right. Humility is the queen of virtues, and I am afraid that Rice might be more virtuous than most of the Christopher West junkies who love to hate her. I know that this isn&#039;t the core of your post, but I would be most interested in knowing what you thought of that entire section of the book &amp; Rice&#039;s approach in general. Do you think that it is inherently harmful, ignorant, or something else?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was actually quite impressed with Rice&#8217;s take in that chapter. She seemed to clearly have her view which was shaped by years in secular society rather than the Church, but she was willing to humbly suggest what she thought might change rather than to assert that the Church was wrong and she was right. Humility is the queen of virtues, and I am afraid that Rice might be more virtuous than most of the Christopher West junkies who love to hate her. I know that this isn&#8217;t the core of your post, but I would be most interested in knowing what you thought of that entire section of the book &amp; Rice&#8217;s approach in general. Do you think that it is inherently harmful, ignorant, or something else?</p>
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		<title>By: NFPworks</title>
		<link>http://kathleenbasi.com/2009/12/15/the-sacred-cow/#comment-1538</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NFPworks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 23:44:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathleenbasi.com/?p=2043#comment-1538</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Church&#039;s Teachings in this area are difficult to cover. There&#039;s a great guest blog post on Engagedmarriage.com from a non-Catholic on what they think of NFP, if that&#039;s a good start. Dustin at EM has a decent handle on how to talk about NFP to newbies &amp; the choir. Hopefully I&#039;m able to do this a little bit on my own blog, too. Keep up the good work, and don&#039;t shy away from the tough issues. People need to hear it!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Church&#8217;s Teachings in this area are difficult to cover. There&#8217;s a great guest blog post on Engagedmarriage.com from a non-Catholic on what they think of NFP, if that&#8217;s a good start. Dustin at EM has a decent handle on how to talk about NFP to newbies &amp; the choir. Hopefully I&#8217;m able to do this a little bit on my own blog, too. Keep up the good work, and don&#8217;t shy away from the tough issues. People need to hear it!</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://kathleenbasi.com/2009/12/15/the-sacred-cow/#comment-1536</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kathleen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 23:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathleenbasi.com/?p=2043#comment-1536</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, I know what you mean. I think it&#039;s because we know we&#039;re on the unpopular end of public opinion. We *shouldn&#039;t* care, but we are human, so we do. OTOH, in some ways I think it&#039;s good, because it requires of us a measured response. It&#039;s when we shoot off our mouths that we cause the most relational damage--as you well know, from your own posts.

I&#039;ve been struggling with how to approach this issue on the blog. I feel like the NFP crowd tends to preach to its own choir, which really isn&#039;t helpful. This is too hard a change of mindset for most people to accept without groundwork. Which is why I&#039;ve been nibbling at the edges. I know that I have a good sized readership that *isn&#039;t* Catholic, and also Catholics who don&#039;t buy into teachings on birth control. So I want to lay the foundation that would allow people to understand *why.*]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I know what you mean. I think it&#8217;s because we know we&#8217;re on the unpopular end of public opinion. We *shouldn&#8217;t* care, but we are human, so we do. OTOH, in some ways I think it&#8217;s good, because it requires of us a measured response. It&#8217;s when we shoot off our mouths that we cause the most relational damage&#8211;as you well know, from your own posts.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been struggling with how to approach this issue on the blog. I feel like the NFP crowd tends to preach to its own choir, which really isn&#8217;t helpful. This is too hard a change of mindset for most people to accept without groundwork. Which is why I&#8217;ve been nibbling at the edges. I know that I have a good sized readership that *isn&#8217;t* Catholic, and also Catholics who don&#8217;t buy into teachings on birth control. So I want to lay the foundation that would allow people to understand *why.*</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle aka Catholic Lady</title>
		<link>http://kathleenbasi.com/2009/12/15/the-sacred-cow/#comment-1535</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michelle aka Catholic Lady]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathleenbasi.com/?p=2043#comment-1535</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think I worded my last sentence wrong.  

What I meant was:

I get frustrated that the only people who seem to be worried about straining the relationship are people like me (and hence we keep rather quiet).  

Those who are vocal in the other direction...it never seems like they care whether they strain the relationship with their comments.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I worded my last sentence wrong.  </p>
<p>What I meant was:</p>
<p>I get frustrated that the only people who seem to be worried about straining the relationship are people like me (and hence we keep rather quiet).  </p>
<p>Those who are vocal in the other direction&#8230;it never seems like they care whether they strain the relationship with their comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle aka Catholic Lady</title>
		<link>http://kathleenbasi.com/2009/12/15/the-sacred-cow/#comment-1534</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michelle aka Catholic Lady]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathleenbasi.com/?p=2043#comment-1534</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kathleen, I suppose shame wasn&#039;t the right word...although isn&#039;t the straining in relationships, fear of confrontation...somewhat the same as feeling ashamed?  I guess it frustrates me that the more vocal people in this discussion are always the ones FOR birth control or claiming the Church needs to &quot;get with the times...&quot; or something like that.  Why is it that the relationships are only strained when I, voicing support for the Church&#039;s teachings on sexuality, am vocal?  That&#039;s kind of what I meant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kathleen, I suppose shame wasn&#8217;t the right word&#8230;although isn&#8217;t the straining in relationships, fear of confrontation&#8230;somewhat the same as feeling ashamed?  I guess it frustrates me that the more vocal people in this discussion are always the ones FOR birth control or claiming the Church needs to &#8220;get with the times&#8230;&#8221; or something like that.  Why is it that the relationships are only strained when I, voicing support for the Church&#8217;s teachings on sexuality, am vocal?  That&#8217;s kind of what I meant.</p>
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		<title>By: fillforsix</title>
		<link>http://kathleenbasi.com/2009/12/15/the-sacred-cow/#comment-1529</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fillforsix]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kathleenbasi.com/?p=2043#comment-1529</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, I get why you said pro-life.  

My discomfort is the same as yours.  I know this is nothing new, but I think the media plays such a huge part in perpetuating the idea that &quot;everyone&quot; is okay with this societal definition of sexuality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I get why you said pro-life.  </p>
<p>My discomfort is the same as yours.  I know this is nothing new, but I think the media plays such a huge part in perpetuating the idea that &#8220;everyone&#8221; is okay with this societal definition of sexuality.</p>
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